The Indian diet does their men no favors. Refusing to eat beef is horrible for your testosterone levels (being vegetarian is even worse). Lower testosterone levels lead to more brown-nosery as found in a recent research paper.
Another factor I am surprised you failed to mention is the Indian call center scams. The first interaction many Americans outside of the tech sector have had with Indians is the fake "Microsoft tech support" guy calling them on the phone. First impressions matter. When the first interaction you have with an Indian person is them trying to scam you or your grandma it colors your perception of the whole group.
If the Indian government wants to improve the international perception of Indians it should do 4 simple things:
1. Imprison every single call center scammer in Kolkata
2. Mandate and actually enforce a total ban on street defecation and cow poop baths. The "street shitter" meme is unfortunately rooted in reality. Disgust is the most powerful emotion and nothing disgusts normies more than poop.
3. Inform Indians that consuming a lot of curry changes your body odor. A lot of the negative perception of Indians revolves around personal hygiene and smell.
4. Encourage Indian students to balance studying with sports or going to the gym. This will help cast off the "dweebish nerd" stereotype.
There is plenty of protein in pulses and peas. Lacto-Vegetarianism by itself is no problem so long as a balanced diet is consumed. Of course, the Indian diet being very oily is a major problem, but then the very unhealthy black American Southern soul food diet is even worse. Black Americans have very high obesity rates in the US. NBA and NFL players are very, very far from the typical black guy in health and athletic ability. Your point about the dweebish nerd stereotype is absolutely correct. It is partly a problem of Indian culture's overemphasis on academics and disdain for sports as a 'time-wasting' activity but also a problem of the immigration process selecting for tech nerds rather than athletes.
1. 100%. What westerners probably don't realise is that Indians themselves are the biggest victims of call centre scams. We have goverment mandated ads and announcements on television constantly warning people to be aware of such scams already.
2. Street defecation is a result of poor plumbing and sanitation in the most poor areas. Its not a preference lol. The cow thing is some very niche ritual also practiced only in rural areas. Unfortunately, rural India is a completely different beast and the world wasn't ready for them to receive high speed internet. Maybe that was a mistake.
3. Easier said than done. Dietary habits are hard to change. But as societies and people get richer, interest in beauty products and cosmetics increases. Fragrant body soaps are very popular but probably not enough. Instead sell deodorants more.
4. Weight training has gained immense popularity amongst Gen Z. Most of my male friends and even some female friends are extremely into gym culture. We are on the right track here.
Gym culture is itself a product of economic growth. As India grows economically, gyms will become more common and patronizing them will become the norm for the Indian Middle class in the same way it is for western Middle classes. The same thing occurred in China. Today's Chinese youngsters are bigger and stronger than most Americans. But on top of that, the psychotic obsession with entrance test scores in Indian culture also needs to be rectified. Of course, that is a product of the way Indian colleges admit students. There is no holistic admissions policy unlike that of the US so entrance test scores are the only thing that matters. That creates a perverse incentive to not focus on sports and extracurriculars. The solution is for Indian colleges to introduce a mandatory athletic ability test for admission.
Only some subcastes of Brahmins are Vegetarian. Otherwise meat, primarly chicken, fish and mutton, are pretty common dishes in Indian cuisine. It's just that you're not allowed to eat meat on some days considered more auspicious like on Tuesdays and Fridays, and is not allowed on some festive ocassions. Even beef, oxen and Buffalo, is eaten in parts of the country is Kerala or Bengal. Hell, some parts in the south still practice animal sacrifice.
The simple reality is, sports and physical exercise is frowned upon in India in favour of an extreme obsession with academics. Not to mention the extremely shame based culture that squashes individuality. Besides, the majority of Indians you get in the US are the nerdy techie types from upper middle class families.
First off, the diet thing— Not quite! Actually, around 70-80% of Indians eat meat like chicken, mutton, fish, or eggs, depending on where they’re from or their community. And about testosterone? Studies are all over the place—some say vegetarians might have slightly lower levels, but it’s not a big deal. Plus, look at Indian wrestlers! Guys like Sushil Kumar and Bajrang Punia, who’ve won Olympic medals, are strict vegetarians, Even Vinesh Phogat, one of our top female wrestlers, thrives on veggie diet. So, the beef fix? Not reallu needed.
1. Now, about those Kolkata call center scams—yeah, it’s annoying that some scammers have targeted people abroad, pretending to be tech support. The central government can’t just shut them down because law and order is handled by states. Kolkata’s in West Bengal, run by a party that is hostile to Modi’s BJP.
2. “street shitter” meme is so outdated its ridiculous to keep trotting it out. It was more of a rural thing years ago due to lack of toilets, not cities. India has built over 110 million toilets last decade, dropping open defecation from over 70% to just 11% now. We’re pretty much open defecation-free in most of districts, though some remote spots still need work. And cow poop baths..Are you serious?
3. About curry and body odor - a classic myth! Indians take baths daily
4. Sports is quite big in India. Of course, its cricket, not football. Gyms have mushroomed all over India. Not a single lane without a gym. Its just that the guys who reach US tend to be techies and not very athletic.
Does this account for Canada and Jatts? It's seems to me the recent surge of anti Indian online hate started there and spread the rest of the English online communities. The stereotype of Jatts isn't really the quiet, nerdy type.
Personally I think it's just loser whites who want a scapegoat rather than taking personal responsibility for how they own goaled their lives repeatedly. Indian Americans are pretty successful so it breeds jealousy.
It started in Canada after a massive wave of recent immigrants and associated scam colleges and other problems.
Fundamentally, it's a product of selection. People are fine with Indians but they don't want to live in India. Few Indians, elite Indians and you get less of this.
Let in large numbers of people from a low trust society and people will react badly. It's especially bad because India is a united polity despite the diversity so things like college scams (the lack of a country cap on immigration led to chain scamming) or people stealing "free" food from charities aimed at the poor when they work for TD (yes, that happened) tar everyone.
The H1B visa hate is specific to America precisely because Indians are well-selected. For the rest of the world the post-COVID migration wave simple saddled them with lower human capital migrants with a corresponding decrease in sympathy.
This fits pretty well with my thesis that introducing a physical fitness requirement to college admissions would alleviate much of the conservative anxiety about cultural Marxism, wokeness, and "foreign takeover."
Russian universities still do this. They also require a core set of classes, regardless of the major, covering government, history, etc. It's a source of complaints from Russian students who find it ridiculous (particularly when a Russian undergraduate degree takes five years to achieve vs. four for a typical western bachelor's degree).
1 - Unaesthetic facial structure. There are specific physical features of the face (bone structure, facial proportions) that are seen as physically attractive, regardless of the color of one's skin. Even very dark skinned persons with the "right" facial structure are considered attractive. (See Damson Idris or Taye Diggs, for example.) Indians tend to not have that type of facial structure, not even the lighter skinned ones. (Obviously not all, but disproportionately high.) You can actually experimentally verify this where you take a dark skinned Indian with what might be considered stereotypical Indian facial structure, and edit their skin to be lighter, and do a survey on which faces people find more attractive (showing either one of those two variants of the Indian face to people). I'm willing to bet that they will both score very low on attractiveness, showing that it's not just the dark skin color, but also the facial structure.
2 - Accent. Some accents are naturally more pleasing than others, and the majority of accents of Indian/South Asian languages are not pleasing. This is not an artifact of skin darkness _causing_ this negative perception, since the Nigerian accent (for example) is not auditorily displeasing to most people. But Indian accents are. The fact that the majority of scam callers are Indians makes this SO much worse for Indians than simply having a bad sounding accent. The Thai and Vietnamese accents aren't much better sounding than Indian ones, but there aren't a million scam calls coming from those countries that make people associate their bad accents with bad intent.
3 - Personal hygiene. A disproportionate number of South Asians have hygiene issues. It's actually not too bad here in N. America (despite being obviously noticeable here too), but it really is bad in a lot of other third-world countries, particularly in the Middle East. The issue isn't genetics, it's culture. Indians/South Asians are cheap, and a) Don't do laundry as frequently as they should and rewear clothes which should be in the laundry; and b) Wear a lot of polyester clothing (because it is cheaper than cotton) which produces bad odors much quicker than cotton. The combination of these two choices is the worst possible world for hygiene and smell, but it's hard to get Indians to change their culture of cheapness on this front.
4 - Physical fitness. You've mentioned this already, but I wanted to flesh it out a little bit. Indians are generally shorter than Africans, and they have lower muscle mass too (genetic trait). So if you take an Indian man and a black man who are both obese, the Indian man will come off looking worse since he is likely to have lower muscle mass and is likely to be shorter (and higher height is obviously a preferred trait). This is a genetic problem with people of the Subcontinent, so not a lot can be done to fix that.
There are probably some other reasons as well, but these are some of the major ones from my experience.
This is such dumb nonsense. Every theory it has is pure, unadulterated dreck.
Light skin has historically been prioritized not due to colonialism but not due to any genetic reason either. It's simply because light skin is a sign that you are rich enough to not need to engage in hard manual labor out in the hot Sun. And that is why in the modern West, the association has reversed and so many Westerners are willing to give themselves sunburns and even skin cancer by spending hours lying under the Sun or in a tanning bed to tan themselves. In the modern developed West, a tan is a sign that you can afford costly vacations to exotic sunnier destinations and also a sign that you spent a lot of time outdoors playing sports, which is also a signal of being wealthy. Conversely, Western countries now have service sector-dominated economies and so there are very few outdoors jobs left. So the dark skin-outdoors job association has disappeared.
The economic impact of immigration is highly complex and variable and absolute statements about immigration being beneficial or harmful are both wrong. It depends on the characteristics of the host economy as well as those of the immigrants. For example, In most of Europe, immigration is a net fiscal negative both because the host countries have overly generous welfare systems with overly easy eligibility requirements plus highly inflexible labor markets, and because the immigrants themselves are disproportionately poor refugees with few marketable skills. The former creates strong perverse incentives for immigrants to get onto welfare rather than working even if they try their best. If an economy is undergoing a recession with increasing unemployment, then more immigration would be a massive negative. Similarly, If the economy being spoken of already has an oversupply of jobseekers for a particular skillset then more immigrants coming in with the same skillset will not lead to economic improvement. It will only lead to increased unemployment in that sector. The economy simply doesn't have the capacity to absorb those extra workers. That's what's happening with the American tech sector. Layoffs from COVID-era overhiring, domestic oversupply due to bootcamps and AI have led to a massive oversupply of tech workers.
The sports section is the only one with some semblance of truth, though the testosterone arguments are pure nonsense. I could show a dozen studies showing that South Asians have tremendous athletic potential. But yes, Indian immigrants in the US are overwhelmingly unathletic tech nerds due to the selection process. On top of that, Indian culture simply doesn't prioritize sports (except for cricket) to the same degree to which American culture does, especially at the school and collegiate level (mainly due to the revenue sports phenomenon in the US). Though 2.5th generation and onwards Indians naturally rapidly assimilate to American cultural norms and start focusing on sports, but because most Indian immigrants are still 1st and 2nd generations, this process will take some time.
Also, blacks are still subject to virulent racism on the same sections of the right which are most responsible for anti-Indian racism. Most of the favors granted to blacks come from the left. And the main reason for said favors is not some 'masculine charisma', but simply because blacks are 13% of the population versus 1.6% for Indians (and virtually all of that 13% are full citizens and so can vote unlike Indians, a huge share of whom are on visas and so are ineligible to vote) and on top of that, blacks are geographically concentrated in ways that amplify their voting power in the FPTP American voting system. In other words, blacks are simply a very potent voting bloc and so pandering to them is essential to winning votes, unlike Indians.
As for the disparity between black male:white female and white male:black female relationships in favor of the former, that's due to the UNattractiveness of black women (who are the most obese demographic in the US by far) rather than the attractiveness of black men (who are some of the least popular demographics on dating apps). Also, black men seem very willing to date fat white women who are mostly rejected by white men. The BBC myth is one created by white men with a cuckolding fetish. It has no relation to reality.
There are a few other minor factors of note such as the hostility of Indian nationalists towards Westerners online and the overrepresentation of Indians in tech support scams, but this post is already too long.
Good piece. I think the main factor is the one you mentioned in the paragraph beginning, "How do East Asian men fit into this?" East Asians and Indians are similarly accomplished and law-abiding in the US, but the former get a lot less hate online. It is surely because they tend to be more quite and introverted, and therefore don't really stand out.
Look at the people being racist and not who they're being racist towards, and you'll have your answer. It's that Indians are in tech.
Since Usenet, Internet users have always been disproportionately a) tech-y whether or not they have jobs and b) weird, bitter nerds. Tech hiring dropped like a rock in q1 2022, so there are a bunch of unemployed CS grads and laid-off SWEs who know Indians but not as friends (they have no friends) and spend all day online. Voila, new racism.
As smart as you are, your argument against racism is basically that you dislike the preferences of those who prefer their own kind (even if they mask it behind false stereotypes). That is a weak argument and akin to moralizing against someone for being “prejudiced” against liver and onions because he secretly hates the taste of it—but instead of being honest about it, argues that it’s an unhealthy food.
To talk about “pre”-judice is to imply that there is something “irrational” (the “pre” part of the word) in disliking alien phenotypes but that is false—as false as saying that men are “irrational” to dislike fat/ugly women or that women are “irrational” to dislike
short men. Racism is not a difference in kind when compared to these examples (which you are perfectly fine with), only a difference in type. Also, there is nothing “subconscious” about racism any more than disliking fat women is subconscious—it’s *very* conscious, but in our very PC culture, people just don’t like to say it out loud.
To say it again for the umpteenth time: The streets/roads are rightfully owned by the natives. Since you are not a socialist, maybe you intuit this in your “subconscious”, but as you are an anti-racist first (overcorrecting for Hoste) and pro-open borders, you feel compelled to moralize against racism in order to achieve your policy preferences against the wishes of the racist, economically-illiterate, unwashed masses (while demanding entry for millions more lower IQ unwashed masses!). But if you understand economics and recognize (more like concede) that alien phenotypes are externalities, then you realize that only internalizing the externalities (i.e., full private property rights) can determine the efficient amount of immigration. The open borders crowd completely ignores externalities/efficiency because “racism bad!.
Prior to a full libertarian regime, the solution is “libertarian directionalism”, i.e., the state should try to “mimic” what a libertarian regime would look like, which means accommodating the preferences of racists (but not state privilege for whites). As you are ok with white enclaves, I recommend you push harder for this and against anti-discrimination laws, which would help defuse anti-immigration sentiment among racists because they would be able to create communities in line with their preferences and be less concerned with Indians, etc. living in communities that prefer “diversity” (or in full obeisance to PC moral codes).
To be fair, he did say at the end of the essay that he just wants rightists to be honest about their true motivations. His problem is with the falsehoods that they hide behind.
H1Bs are not immigrants. They’re guest workers with minimal rights. Prisoners have a less precarious existence than H1Bs. If you really wanted to fix the tech wages undercutting you would give those tech workers green cards. Except that will cause even more outrage on the increasingly white-nationalist right.
There are two points to the issues of Indians and H1B visas that Richard completely misses.
The first regards the economic virtues of low wage labor. Sure, it benefits the economy as a whole. But what's happening is similar to unionism in the professional classes - Teamsters enjoy wages four and five times what non-union laborers get, because they limit the supply of labor that can do those jobs. Is it bad for the economy as a whole? Definitely. Is it good for Teamster members? Absolutely. Low wage Indian workers in the economy aren't going to improve wages or benefit the high wage native professionals who would otherwise work those jobs.
The second is Richard's thesis that it's conservatives opposed to Indians and H1B visas (the author notes a high correlation between the two). There's a website called slashdot.org, "News for Nerds, News that Matters". The readership is white, mostly boomers with a good mix of millenials, work in STEM or STEM-adjacent fields, and are extremely liberal. Since Trump got back in every office, somehow EVERY single article manages to get turned into railing against Trump - whether it's on advances in laser crystal lattices, whatever.
But the one thing Slashdotters are 100% in agreement with Trump on (though they can't admit it directly) is absolute fear and loathing of H1B visas and Indians. This is a crowd that defends Black criminality, mob violence, and the rights of he-shes to be in their daughter's locker rooms. It is woke on steroids. But Indians? You'd think you fell in with a bunch of in-bred yokels in rural Tennessee discussing the merits of miscegeny.
Animosity towards Indians is a bipartisan, liberal + far-right thing in the U.S..
If we’re going to go into “race science”, my bet is that Indians are actually far more athletic than China. Olympics can be broadly divided into Athleticism and then technical and judged sports. China autistically has decided to max out on technical and judged sports like diving, gymnastics, some extent swimming and trampoline etc. This is not really athleticism, and a capable government with a grueling training schedule can generate wins in these sports from any racial category I presume. Regarding ping pong and Badminton I think, probably Asians do have an advantage in high speed reflexive sports and also are advantaged that these are national sports which are watched by millions in their countries.
Compared to India, Indias cricket team has generally been top 2 since forever (might be worse than Aussie overall, but better than the rest). India won a bunch of hockey gold till 1980s, recently they got a gold in disc throwing. I think the “Indian race” has the potential in winning in a bunch of other athletic categories like Triple Jump, Hurdles etc but I doubt Chinese do, or it will be very rare if they ever win in such a category.
It also should be noted that India is a polity and a strong identity but not a race per se, while that is not the case for China. Which is why I also find the whole per capita sports thing inane. Even within India, sports are dominated by the historically martial races or caste which means upper castes. But even this misstated the situation because marriage across localities is also very uncommon. There are 28+ languages in India, I would say 9-10 strong languages that represented different peoples historically like countries of Europe. People historically married only within their state so a Brahmin from Tamil Nadu (who tends to be more intellectual as evidenced by googles ceo or current chess world champion) is very different from a Brahmin from Maharashtra who were historically warriors, famously fighting the Mughal rule in Indian history and involves more sport luminaries like the “God of Cricket”, and also produced olympians in wrestling etc. Then we also have the martial races recognized by the British colonial admins (generally the Sikhs) which shows we actually have a really large number of groups that I would classify as races in the Indian polity that till recently have low rates of intermarriage. And I think that the most athletic of these groups can be as athletic as any of the “white race” is my hypothesis.
Fair enough, though to note, even here China is a considered most dominant in “artistic swimming” which is evaluated by judges, but it’s also won some freestyle individual and relay events.
I had no idea India had success in the sport of Hockey. Seems like that would make a great Hollywood movie, along the lines of the movie about the Jamaican bobsledders.
Swimming and weightlifting are both pure athleticism and China does well in both. And this race and caste science bullcrap is a sign of very low intelligence.
There are good “race science” reasons why East Asians are better at swimming and weightlifting than sprinting or basketball. They are not “pure athleticism.” You’re just ignorant on this topic because you have an emotional reaction to it and can’t face obvious facts about the world.
I don’t think sports as pure athleticism is a useful concept. The point is Indians and East Asians are bad at the sports Americans and Europeans like that involve running and jumping.
I can agree for the sprints, the long-distance running and the basketball, but there are plenty of other Olympic sports which Americans and Europeans like at which East Asians in particular do very well indeed.
It's actually because they can't drive and are nepotistic. I prefer Indians to Chinese because they don't torture animals but I also don't want them taking over my country. It's nothing personal. They wouldn't want white people taking over their country. No one wants to be a minority in their own country.
I'm not aware of any studies on it, but colloquially there's a sh!t ton of evidence that it's true. Everyone in Silicon Valley 100% believes that it's true, because they've seen it with their own eyes. Once you start hiring from the body shops (like Accenture and Tencent), the whole company turns Indian - even if it's local (non-H1B) hires. And it's not just "Indians hiring Indians" - it's Indian groups hiring and promoting only with their own group. I don't understand the dynamics of that very well.
The right is increasingly made up of online incels, as white non-college educated males are declining in this country and are lashing out, and now white-collar Americans with pro-Trump leanings are more vocal in their online hatred.
The Indian diet does their men no favors. Refusing to eat beef is horrible for your testosterone levels (being vegetarian is even worse). Lower testosterone levels lead to more brown-nosery as found in a recent research paper.
Another factor I am surprised you failed to mention is the Indian call center scams. The first interaction many Americans outside of the tech sector have had with Indians is the fake "Microsoft tech support" guy calling them on the phone. First impressions matter. When the first interaction you have with an Indian person is them trying to scam you or your grandma it colors your perception of the whole group.
If the Indian government wants to improve the international perception of Indians it should do 4 simple things:
1. Imprison every single call center scammer in Kolkata
2. Mandate and actually enforce a total ban on street defecation and cow poop baths. The "street shitter" meme is unfortunately rooted in reality. Disgust is the most powerful emotion and nothing disgusts normies more than poop.
3. Inform Indians that consuming a lot of curry changes your body odor. A lot of the negative perception of Indians revolves around personal hygiene and smell.
4. Encourage Indian students to balance studying with sports or going to the gym. This will help cast off the "dweebish nerd" stereotype.
There is plenty of protein in pulses and peas. Lacto-Vegetarianism by itself is no problem so long as a balanced diet is consumed. Of course, the Indian diet being very oily is a major problem, but then the very unhealthy black American Southern soul food diet is even worse. Black Americans have very high obesity rates in the US. NBA and NFL players are very, very far from the typical black guy in health and athletic ability. Your point about the dweebish nerd stereotype is absolutely correct. It is partly a problem of Indian culture's overemphasis on academics and disdain for sports as a 'time-wasting' activity but also a problem of the immigration process selecting for tech nerds rather than athletes.
Pulses and peas are still primarily sources of carbohydrates. Their protein density is too low.
1. 100%. What westerners probably don't realise is that Indians themselves are the biggest victims of call centre scams. We have goverment mandated ads and announcements on television constantly warning people to be aware of such scams already.
2. Street defecation is a result of poor plumbing and sanitation in the most poor areas. Its not a preference lol. The cow thing is some very niche ritual also practiced only in rural areas. Unfortunately, rural India is a completely different beast and the world wasn't ready for them to receive high speed internet. Maybe that was a mistake.
3. Easier said than done. Dietary habits are hard to change. But as societies and people get richer, interest in beauty products and cosmetics increases. Fragrant body soaps are very popular but probably not enough. Instead sell deodorants more.
4. Weight training has gained immense popularity amongst Gen Z. Most of my male friends and even some female friends are extremely into gym culture. We are on the right track here.
Gym culture is itself a product of economic growth. As India grows economically, gyms will become more common and patronizing them will become the norm for the Indian Middle class in the same way it is for western Middle classes. The same thing occurred in China. Today's Chinese youngsters are bigger and stronger than most Americans. But on top of that, the psychotic obsession with entrance test scores in Indian culture also needs to be rectified. Of course, that is a product of the way Indian colleges admit students. There is no holistic admissions policy unlike that of the US so entrance test scores are the only thing that matters. That creates a perverse incentive to not focus on sports and extracurriculars. The solution is for Indian colleges to introduce a mandatory athletic ability test for admission.
Only some subcastes of Brahmins are Vegetarian. Otherwise meat, primarly chicken, fish and mutton, are pretty common dishes in Indian cuisine. It's just that you're not allowed to eat meat on some days considered more auspicious like on Tuesdays and Fridays, and is not allowed on some festive ocassions. Even beef, oxen and Buffalo, is eaten in parts of the country is Kerala or Bengal. Hell, some parts in the south still practice animal sacrifice.
The simple reality is, sports and physical exercise is frowned upon in India in favour of an extreme obsession with academics. Not to mention the extremely shame based culture that squashes individuality. Besides, the majority of Indians you get in the US are the nerdy techie types from upper middle class families.
First off, the diet thing— Not quite! Actually, around 70-80% of Indians eat meat like chicken, mutton, fish, or eggs, depending on where they’re from or their community. And about testosterone? Studies are all over the place—some say vegetarians might have slightly lower levels, but it’s not a big deal. Plus, look at Indian wrestlers! Guys like Sushil Kumar and Bajrang Punia, who’ve won Olympic medals, are strict vegetarians, Even Vinesh Phogat, one of our top female wrestlers, thrives on veggie diet. So, the beef fix? Not reallu needed.
1. Now, about those Kolkata call center scams—yeah, it’s annoying that some scammers have targeted people abroad, pretending to be tech support. The central government can’t just shut them down because law and order is handled by states. Kolkata’s in West Bengal, run by a party that is hostile to Modi’s BJP.
2. “street shitter” meme is so outdated its ridiculous to keep trotting it out. It was more of a rural thing years ago due to lack of toilets, not cities. India has built over 110 million toilets last decade, dropping open defecation from over 70% to just 11% now. We’re pretty much open defecation-free in most of districts, though some remote spots still need work. And cow poop baths..Are you serious?
3. About curry and body odor - a classic myth! Indians take baths daily
4. Sports is quite big in India. Of course, its cricket, not football. Gyms have mushroomed all over India. Not a single lane without a gym. Its just that the guys who reach US tend to be techies and not very athletic.
Does this account for Canada and Jatts? It's seems to me the recent surge of anti Indian online hate started there and spread the rest of the English online communities. The stereotype of Jatts isn't really the quiet, nerdy type.
Personally I think it's just loser whites who want a scapegoat rather than taking personal responsibility for how they own goaled their lives repeatedly. Indian Americans are pretty successful so it breeds jealousy.
It started in Canada after a massive wave of recent immigrants and associated scam colleges and other problems.
Fundamentally, it's a product of selection. People are fine with Indians but they don't want to live in India. Few Indians, elite Indians and you get less of this.
Let in large numbers of people from a low trust society and people will react badly. It's especially bad because India is a united polity despite the diversity so things like college scams (the lack of a country cap on immigration led to chain scamming) or people stealing "free" food from charities aimed at the poor when they work for TD (yes, that happened) tar everyone.
The H1B visa hate is specific to America precisely because Indians are well-selected. For the rest of the world the post-COVID migration wave simple saddled them with lower human capital migrants with a corresponding decrease in sympathy.
It's pure race hatred. Superficial hatred based on melanin content.
Conservatives are not an evolved species. They still have have base tribal demeanour.
This fits pretty well with my thesis that introducing a physical fitness requirement to college admissions would alleviate much of the conservative anxiety about cultural Marxism, wokeness, and "foreign takeover."
Russian universities still do this. They also require a core set of classes, regardless of the major, covering government, history, etc. It's a source of complaints from Russian students who find it ridiculous (particularly when a Russian undergraduate degree takes five years to achieve vs. four for a typical western bachelor's degree).
I don't really like course requirements. I'm just saying you should have to film yourself doing 50 pushups or something in your college application.
Who says that Indians are vegetarians???
Most Indian eat Non veg food
Have you ever seen a Chinese vegetarian ??
They eat non veg Every single day . Yet see their bodies, physique. Compare that with Physique of North West Indians Vegetarian.
Later are muscled, Tall .
Everything about food and it's relationship with muscles is BOGUS
Virak Kohli Indias and World's most Talented cricketer, Micheal Jordan of Cricket is -- is small skinny and is a vegetarian .
He says this helped him lean ,less fat ,means more stamina.
None of so called Whites from British and Austali7, Blacks from Carribbean beat us Pulses eating Hindus from India Cricket.
Why ??
A few other factors as well:
1 - Unaesthetic facial structure. There are specific physical features of the face (bone structure, facial proportions) that are seen as physically attractive, regardless of the color of one's skin. Even very dark skinned persons with the "right" facial structure are considered attractive. (See Damson Idris or Taye Diggs, for example.) Indians tend to not have that type of facial structure, not even the lighter skinned ones. (Obviously not all, but disproportionately high.) You can actually experimentally verify this where you take a dark skinned Indian with what might be considered stereotypical Indian facial structure, and edit their skin to be lighter, and do a survey on which faces people find more attractive (showing either one of those two variants of the Indian face to people). I'm willing to bet that they will both score very low on attractiveness, showing that it's not just the dark skin color, but also the facial structure.
2 - Accent. Some accents are naturally more pleasing than others, and the majority of accents of Indian/South Asian languages are not pleasing. This is not an artifact of skin darkness _causing_ this negative perception, since the Nigerian accent (for example) is not auditorily displeasing to most people. But Indian accents are. The fact that the majority of scam callers are Indians makes this SO much worse for Indians than simply having a bad sounding accent. The Thai and Vietnamese accents aren't much better sounding than Indian ones, but there aren't a million scam calls coming from those countries that make people associate their bad accents with bad intent.
3 - Personal hygiene. A disproportionate number of South Asians have hygiene issues. It's actually not too bad here in N. America (despite being obviously noticeable here too), but it really is bad in a lot of other third-world countries, particularly in the Middle East. The issue isn't genetics, it's culture. Indians/South Asians are cheap, and a) Don't do laundry as frequently as they should and rewear clothes which should be in the laundry; and b) Wear a lot of polyester clothing (because it is cheaper than cotton) which produces bad odors much quicker than cotton. The combination of these two choices is the worst possible world for hygiene and smell, but it's hard to get Indians to change their culture of cheapness on this front.
4 - Physical fitness. You've mentioned this already, but I wanted to flesh it out a little bit. Indians are generally shorter than Africans, and they have lower muscle mass too (genetic trait). So if you take an Indian man and a black man who are both obese, the Indian man will come off looking worse since he is likely to have lower muscle mass and is likely to be shorter (and higher height is obviously a preferred trait). This is a genetic problem with people of the Subcontinent, so not a lot can be done to fix that.
There are probably some other reasons as well, but these are some of the major ones from my experience.
This is such dumb nonsense. Every theory it has is pure, unadulterated dreck.
Light skin has historically been prioritized not due to colonialism but not due to any genetic reason either. It's simply because light skin is a sign that you are rich enough to not need to engage in hard manual labor out in the hot Sun. And that is why in the modern West, the association has reversed and so many Westerners are willing to give themselves sunburns and even skin cancer by spending hours lying under the Sun or in a tanning bed to tan themselves. In the modern developed West, a tan is a sign that you can afford costly vacations to exotic sunnier destinations and also a sign that you spent a lot of time outdoors playing sports, which is also a signal of being wealthy. Conversely, Western countries now have service sector-dominated economies and so there are very few outdoors jobs left. So the dark skin-outdoors job association has disappeared.
The economic impact of immigration is highly complex and variable and absolute statements about immigration being beneficial or harmful are both wrong. It depends on the characteristics of the host economy as well as those of the immigrants. For example, In most of Europe, immigration is a net fiscal negative both because the host countries have overly generous welfare systems with overly easy eligibility requirements plus highly inflexible labor markets, and because the immigrants themselves are disproportionately poor refugees with few marketable skills. The former creates strong perverse incentives for immigrants to get onto welfare rather than working even if they try their best. If an economy is undergoing a recession with increasing unemployment, then more immigration would be a massive negative. Similarly, If the economy being spoken of already has an oversupply of jobseekers for a particular skillset then more immigrants coming in with the same skillset will not lead to economic improvement. It will only lead to increased unemployment in that sector. The economy simply doesn't have the capacity to absorb those extra workers. That's what's happening with the American tech sector. Layoffs from COVID-era overhiring, domestic oversupply due to bootcamps and AI have led to a massive oversupply of tech workers.
The sports section is the only one with some semblance of truth, though the testosterone arguments are pure nonsense. I could show a dozen studies showing that South Asians have tremendous athletic potential. But yes, Indian immigrants in the US are overwhelmingly unathletic tech nerds due to the selection process. On top of that, Indian culture simply doesn't prioritize sports (except for cricket) to the same degree to which American culture does, especially at the school and collegiate level (mainly due to the revenue sports phenomenon in the US). Though 2.5th generation and onwards Indians naturally rapidly assimilate to American cultural norms and start focusing on sports, but because most Indian immigrants are still 1st and 2nd generations, this process will take some time.
Also, blacks are still subject to virulent racism on the same sections of the right which are most responsible for anti-Indian racism. Most of the favors granted to blacks come from the left. And the main reason for said favors is not some 'masculine charisma', but simply because blacks are 13% of the population versus 1.6% for Indians (and virtually all of that 13% are full citizens and so can vote unlike Indians, a huge share of whom are on visas and so are ineligible to vote) and on top of that, blacks are geographically concentrated in ways that amplify their voting power in the FPTP American voting system. In other words, blacks are simply a very potent voting bloc and so pandering to them is essential to winning votes, unlike Indians.
As for the disparity between black male:white female and white male:black female relationships in favor of the former, that's due to the UNattractiveness of black women (who are the most obese demographic in the US by far) rather than the attractiveness of black men (who are some of the least popular demographics on dating apps). Also, black men seem very willing to date fat white women who are mostly rejected by white men. The BBC myth is one created by white men with a cuckolding fetish. It has no relation to reality.
There are a few other minor factors of note such as the hostility of Indian nationalists towards Westerners online and the overrepresentation of Indians in tech support scams, but this post is already too long.
Good piece. I think the main factor is the one you mentioned in the paragraph beginning, "How do East Asian men fit into this?" East Asians and Indians are similarly accomplished and law-abiding in the US, but the former get a lot less hate online. It is surely because they tend to be more quite and introverted, and therefore don't really stand out.
Look at the people being racist and not who they're being racist towards, and you'll have your answer. It's that Indians are in tech.
Since Usenet, Internet users have always been disproportionately a) tech-y whether or not they have jobs and b) weird, bitter nerds. Tech hiring dropped like a rock in q1 2022, so there are a bunch of unemployed CS grads and laid-off SWEs who know Indians but not as friends (they have no friends) and spend all day online. Voila, new racism.
As smart as you are, your argument against racism is basically that you dislike the preferences of those who prefer their own kind (even if they mask it behind false stereotypes). That is a weak argument and akin to moralizing against someone for being “prejudiced” against liver and onions because he secretly hates the taste of it—but instead of being honest about it, argues that it’s an unhealthy food.
To talk about “pre”-judice is to imply that there is something “irrational” (the “pre” part of the word) in disliking alien phenotypes but that is false—as false as saying that men are “irrational” to dislike fat/ugly women or that women are “irrational” to dislike
short men. Racism is not a difference in kind when compared to these examples (which you are perfectly fine with), only a difference in type. Also, there is nothing “subconscious” about racism any more than disliking fat women is subconscious—it’s *very* conscious, but in our very PC culture, people just don’t like to say it out loud.
To say it again for the umpteenth time: The streets/roads are rightfully owned by the natives. Since you are not a socialist, maybe you intuit this in your “subconscious”, but as you are an anti-racist first (overcorrecting for Hoste) and pro-open borders, you feel compelled to moralize against racism in order to achieve your policy preferences against the wishes of the racist, economically-illiterate, unwashed masses (while demanding entry for millions more lower IQ unwashed masses!). But if you understand economics and recognize (more like concede) that alien phenotypes are externalities, then you realize that only internalizing the externalities (i.e., full private property rights) can determine the efficient amount of immigration. The open borders crowd completely ignores externalities/efficiency because “racism bad!.
Prior to a full libertarian regime, the solution is “libertarian directionalism”, i.e., the state should try to “mimic” what a libertarian regime would look like, which means accommodating the preferences of racists (but not state privilege for whites). As you are ok with white enclaves, I recommend you push harder for this and against anti-discrimination laws, which would help defuse anti-immigration sentiment among racists because they would be able to create communities in line with their preferences and be less concerned with Indians, etc. living in communities that prefer “diversity” (or in full obeisance to PC moral codes).
To be fair, he did say at the end of the essay that he just wants rightists to be honest about their true motivations. His problem is with the falsehoods that they hide behind.
But he moralizes against racism all the time (although he does say he is ok with “personal” racism).
Whites have massive status anxiety .. ergo this anxiety and hatred is peddled towards easy targets like Indians - who don't fight back.
H1Bs are not immigrants. They’re guest workers with minimal rights. Prisoners have a less precarious existence than H1Bs. If you really wanted to fix the tech wages undercutting you would give those tech workers green cards. Except that will cause even more outrage on the increasingly white-nationalist right.
There are two points to the issues of Indians and H1B visas that Richard completely misses.
The first regards the economic virtues of low wage labor. Sure, it benefits the economy as a whole. But what's happening is similar to unionism in the professional classes - Teamsters enjoy wages four and five times what non-union laborers get, because they limit the supply of labor that can do those jobs. Is it bad for the economy as a whole? Definitely. Is it good for Teamster members? Absolutely. Low wage Indian workers in the economy aren't going to improve wages or benefit the high wage native professionals who would otherwise work those jobs.
The second is Richard's thesis that it's conservatives opposed to Indians and H1B visas (the author notes a high correlation between the two). There's a website called slashdot.org, "News for Nerds, News that Matters". The readership is white, mostly boomers with a good mix of millenials, work in STEM or STEM-adjacent fields, and are extremely liberal. Since Trump got back in every office, somehow EVERY single article manages to get turned into railing against Trump - whether it's on advances in laser crystal lattices, whatever.
But the one thing Slashdotters are 100% in agreement with Trump on (though they can't admit it directly) is absolute fear and loathing of H1B visas and Indians. This is a crowd that defends Black criminality, mob violence, and the rights of he-shes to be in their daughter's locker rooms. It is woke on steroids. But Indians? You'd think you fell in with a bunch of in-bred yokels in rural Tennessee discussing the merits of miscegeny.
Animosity towards Indians is a bipartisan, liberal + far-right thing in the U.S..
If we’re going to go into “race science”, my bet is that Indians are actually far more athletic than China. Olympics can be broadly divided into Athleticism and then technical and judged sports. China autistically has decided to max out on technical and judged sports like diving, gymnastics, some extent swimming and trampoline etc. This is not really athleticism, and a capable government with a grueling training schedule can generate wins in these sports from any racial category I presume. Regarding ping pong and Badminton I think, probably Asians do have an advantage in high speed reflexive sports and also are advantaged that these are national sports which are watched by millions in their countries.
Compared to India, Indias cricket team has generally been top 2 since forever (might be worse than Aussie overall, but better than the rest). India won a bunch of hockey gold till 1980s, recently they got a gold in disc throwing. I think the “Indian race” has the potential in winning in a bunch of other athletic categories like Triple Jump, Hurdles etc but I doubt Chinese do, or it will be very rare if they ever win in such a category.
It also should be noted that India is a polity and a strong identity but not a race per se, while that is not the case for China. Which is why I also find the whole per capita sports thing inane. Even within India, sports are dominated by the historically martial races or caste which means upper castes. But even this misstated the situation because marriage across localities is also very uncommon. There are 28+ languages in India, I would say 9-10 strong languages that represented different peoples historically like countries of Europe. People historically married only within their state so a Brahmin from Tamil Nadu (who tends to be more intellectual as evidenced by googles ceo or current chess world champion) is very different from a Brahmin from Maharashtra who were historically warriors, famously fighting the Mughal rule in Indian history and involves more sport luminaries like the “God of Cricket”, and also produced olympians in wrestling etc. Then we also have the martial races recognized by the British colonial admins (generally the Sikhs) which shows we actually have a really large number of groups that I would classify as races in the Indian polity that till recently have low rates of intermarriage. And I think that the most athletic of these groups can be as athletic as any of the “white race” is my hypothesis.
It’s silly to lump swimming with the judged sports. In swimming, the fastest person across the pool wins. It’s totally objective and open to all.
Fair enough, though to note, even here China is a considered most dominant in “artistic swimming” which is evaluated by judges, but it’s also won some freestyle individual and relay events.
I had no idea India had success in the sport of Hockey. Seems like that would make a great Hollywood movie, along the lines of the movie about the Jamaican bobsledders.
I think he means field hockey, the sport played by guys in most of the world but by girls in kilts in the US.
Swimming and weightlifting are both pure athleticism and China does well in both. And this race and caste science bullcrap is a sign of very low intelligence.
There are good “race science” reasons why East Asians are better at swimming and weightlifting than sprinting or basketball. They are not “pure athleticism.” You’re just ignorant on this topic because you have an emotional reaction to it and can’t face obvious facts about the world.
What sports would you classify under pure athleticism?
I don’t think sports as pure athleticism is a useful concept. The point is Indians and East Asians are bad at the sports Americans and Europeans like that involve running and jumping.
Maybe instead of athleticism, something more precise could be sports that require judges to determine the winner vs those that don’t.
I can agree for the sprints, the long-distance running and the basketball, but there are plenty of other Olympic sports which Americans and Europeans like at which East Asians in particular do very well indeed.
It's actually because they can't drive and are nepotistic. I prefer Indians to Chinese because they don't torture animals but I also don't want them taking over my country. It's nothing personal. They wouldn't want white people taking over their country. No one wants to be a minority in their own country.
Back up your sentiments with numbers. Do Indians have higher crash rates? Do Indians hire and promote other Indians at a rate than other groups?
I'm not aware of any studies on it, but colloquially there's a sh!t ton of evidence that it's true. Everyone in Silicon Valley 100% believes that it's true, because they've seen it with their own eyes. Once you start hiring from the body shops (like Accenture and Tencent), the whole company turns Indian - even if it's local (non-H1B) hires. And it's not just "Indians hiring Indians" - it's Indian groups hiring and promoting only with their own group. I don't understand the dynamics of that very well.
The right is increasingly made up of online incels, as white non-college educated males are declining in this country and are lashing out, and now white-collar Americans with pro-Trump leanings are more vocal in their online hatred.