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משכיל בינה's avatar

Your history of Catholicism and anti-Catholicism in England is all messed up.

1) It's absolutely not true that 'for the next hundred years Catholics and Protestants fought for political power'. Organized Catholicism ended with the death of Mary I in 1558. Catholics, at most, were fighting for toleration.

2) It may be true that puritans claimed that 'opposition to Catholicism was the primary reason English Calvinists came to the New World in the 1620s and 1630s', but they were not fleeing Catholic priests hiding in priests holes (a real thing google it). What they meant by 'Popery' were stained glass windows, bishops, singing any kind of song except metrical psalms, not enforcing strict Sunday laws, Christmas and, frankly, just about any random thing that puritans had decided was forbidden under their ever-escalating purity spirals.

3) It's technically true that James II was the last Catholic King, but your presentation is entirely misleading. There had not been another catholic monarch for over 100 years prior, and he only became king because Charles II died without heirs. He would never have converted otherwise. His programme once in power was toleration for Catholics, and he tried various alliances, first with High Church Anglicans, then with Dissenters and Whigs, but no-one would go along with it. It's true that puritans depicted this as a culmination of 100 years of catholic scheming to take over England, but that is because they were sick in the head.

So your history is accurate in the sense that it represents the self-conception of deranged, malicious New England puritans, but not as a representation of what actually happened in history. Puritans were horrible people then and are horrible people now and it would have been better had all their ships drowned. The United States of America was founded, basically, by episcopalian* southern slave-owners and enlightenment intellectuals, and one of their goals (in which ultimately they failed) was containing the lunatic puritans who had been integral to the revolution a decade before, but were more dangerous than English rule ever had been.

(=Anglican i.e. the people puritans had 'fled' from)

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Anatoly Karlin's avatar

I think politicized religion in the developed world today is far more of a synthetic construct more than a living tradition with much if any historical relevance; Nemets on X made that point recently. https://x.com/Peter_Nimitz/status/1835174879915868543

One can have different views on Roman Catholicism, but Internet tradcaths have little to do with it in any substantive sense. It's amusing to me that someone like Fuentes fantasizes about bring back witch-burnings in his monologues while IRL the Inquisition protected women from this in Early Modern Europe.

I would instead posit there is a kind of Rightoid "general factor" at play which expresses itself in some common beliefs and behaviors (anti-vaxxerism/COVID denial, anti-abortion, diverse conspiracism) which they project on religions and ideologues with "trad" and "based" aesthetics - so, not just Catholicism, though it has probably become the most powerful Schelling point for American rightoids, but also Orthodoxy and Islam. (The Orthodox larpers have more of a tankie and Third Worldist tilt, while the Islam people are manospherians like Tate and Bilzerian).

This obviously has analogues in foreign countries (given US Culture Victory in the Civilization game). One of my favorite examples is late Russian Orthodox priest/schizo Vsevolod Chaplin who praised FGM as a noble tradition, amongst other powerful takes.

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