So I'm a 2nd gen Indian American (meaning American born Indian immigrant parents) and the sheer ignorance on this topic, even more than the racism, is astounding.
First of all, these are almost all 2nd gen Indian Americans as well and there is a lot of them at UT Austin because of this: UT is the top school in the state, there are a lot of 2nd gen Indians in Texas who are smart and get good grades, and affirmative action is gone. Large schools also have Ethnic frats and social bubbles so this is just one part of the student section.
2nd, I'm actually pretty anti-H1B precisely because I believe that very smart and capable 2nd gen Asians and Indians are the most affected. Ive seen many of my smart friends struggle in the job market because they have to compete with H1Bs who will get kicked out of the country and will accept lower pay.
2nd-gen Indian-Americans are typically quite Americanized. The negative Indian stereotypes rarely apply. Besides, realistically you aren't going to be successful at kicking out US citizens. The legal barriers are just too high there, and it's political suicide. Let's not turn our country into a circular firing squad. To do so would be very unpatriotic.
Anti-H1B is a bad take though. If first gen Asian and Indians are better workers than "very smart and capable 2nd gen Asians and Indians" the first generation should get the job.
I don’t think this argument is so much about trying to reason with the bigots so much as an analysis of the best interests of second and third generation Asian Americans.
You should note that everything you say about people coming on H-1B was said about your immigrant parents too. I've been following this conversation for a long time, and there's nothing they say about the visa or its recipients now that they didn't say back in the mid-90s (or early oughts); it's just the volume that's increased of late, not because of any personal experiences that people have had but rather social contagion (it's now cool to "like" or "retweet" such opinions).
When you say, ". . . this is just one part of the student section", do you mean that in the stadium the spectators tend to segregate themselves by skin color into ethnic sections, implying that the photograph is of one of the Indian sections? So of course it's all brown? Ethnic frats don't seem to be a good idea, either. Are they exclusive? Can an Indian frat bar pledges who are white or Chinese or not brown enough? Or is it just understood that white students aren't going to apply to join an Indian frat where they know they're not wanted?
I'm glad to know that affirmative action is no longer keeping out smart 2nd-gen Indians (who are of course US citizens) in favor of dull "legacy" blacks.
I had an Arab pal who was a part of a Jewish frat (he was neither ethnically nor culturally Jewish) and I was approached by recruiters for a black frat (I'm not black) so it's not exactly prohibited. Just amusing
You know why the racists are so triggered by the multicolored UT students? UT is the flagship public university in Texas and requires the best grades to get into.
The problem with folks like Cornyn who condemn overt racism is that folks who sounded like him managed to keep the riffraff out of elite institutions for decades on end without any explicit racism. Hmmm.
Last time I checked 70% of US senators were white men.
BTW, I noticed that women of any type were undercounted in the UT crowd.
The riffraff in the old decades was mostly black, so it kept itself out of elite institutions without any explicit racism. Yes that's exactly how it worked....until affirmative action let it in through lowered standards. The fall of AA now keeps those dull black people out, and their spots are being taken by people of other colors who get in on merit. That is doubtless a surprise to some people. It was calculated a few years ago that if Harvard ended affirmative action, its student body would be almost entirely Indian and Chinese and essentially no legacy black Americans. (Such black faces as you saw would be mostly Nigerian visa students.) That's just what meritocracy looks like.
You're only seeing a tiny slice of the audience, possibly selected to show a concentration of brown men. It's a football game. Women go to football games only if they are the girlfriends of the fans or players. There could well be fan section where the women hang out together....fewer drunks, maybe. That said, it would be nice to think that college football stadiums are the one place in the whole country that hasn't been feminized.
The U.S. electorate has decided it doesn't want more than 30% of Senators who are women or colored people. It's not the Senate's fault that "those people" don't get elected. The voters can vote for whomever they want, and they don't want to vote for black women. Suck it up.
No, folks like Cornyn created color blind meritocracy. Sad to see everyone hating on the white men who created one of the fairest cultures in history. In most societies, marginalized groups don’t complain at all because they can’t imagine that folk like Cornyn would ever allow access to their institutions.
White men gave everyone the vote and access to every rung of the ladder. Groups aren’t randomly selected. There’s nothing suspicious about male majority electricians or female majority healthcare workers etc.
You won’t get naively representative outcomes anywhere without even more social engineering than what equity activists have already been allowed to implement.
Was in Frisco, TX recently for work and there is a large Indian population. Went to a Rangers game and there was a group of Indian men there, late 20- early 30’s, all of them had like wings, burgers, etc… as they just talked and cheered on the TX rangers. They were the loudest and proudest fans in the stadium haha. Thats what we want in this country and they along with the UT fans are the best we could ask for.
The immigration from India over the past few decades has been highly selective - typically highly educated professionals in STEM fields. Very capable and highly disciplined immigrants - and from what I have seen, their kids are typically capable and hard working. I think a lot of the hatred here is from people who do now want to or have been unsuscessful competing with them. When my younger kids were in the public schools a decade ago in the Issaquah school disctrict (Seattle suburb, filled with Microsoft and Amazon workers) I would guess somewhat in excess of 2/3 of the kids in the Honors/IB classes were the children of South or East Asian parents.
When I did my Ph.D. in Engineering over 40 years ago most of my fellow graduate students were immigrants from South and East Asia. I understand the the fraction of foreign graduate students was even higher recently - at least until Trump started cutting back on both research and foreign students.
I told my kids to rise to the occasion. The professional workforce was a global one and they might as well get used to the competition now.
These immigrants are an asset to the country.
While I wish they would intermarry faster, the intermarriage rate is reasonably fast. The last I have heard for Indian immigrants is ~ 1/3 marry into the same caste they come from, 1/3 marry into a different caste, and 1/3 marry a non-Indian. Within 2 generations you are going to see > 50% outmarriage, which is reasonable.
Incredible. And Sean Davis is piling on? I knew he was a reactionary but I didn’t know he was an outright, unrepentant racist in the George Wallace mold. Dayum.
John Cornyn said "This is how great political parties self-destruct." And he was totally on board with enabling this until the cult went after him, and now that it's destroyed his political career, he suddenly has a problem with it.
One big problem here is that a lot of people on the center-left proliferated this idea of 'popularism' as a way of winning coalitional struggles against the far left. However, if you take 'politicians should adopt whatever positions they need to in order to maximize their odds of winning' to its logical conclusion, then if it turns out that most people are somewhat racist and find it distasteful when racial and ethnic minorities do well in American society, we have problems.
Sean Davis in the bigot column is interesting: he tried for a while to keep The Federalist as a true-conservative outlet while all along he was getting measured for his Klan robe.
It’s amazing what one image can do, along with groupthink & political propaganda speak.
Do you remember the image of the border patrol agent on the horse several years ago? The previous administration and sensational democrat talking point was that he was “whipping the migrant”. Not true! But oh the emotional response it produced in people was insane!
I know nothing about Bo French, but does he actually think that type of rhetoric help the right win in the long run? Does he understand big tent? 90% of students must be American citizens in the school according to an article I read. Also, when you look up other pictures from the game, there’s a diverse group of students, many white students are clear in other images as well. The power of a photo is worth a thousand words?!
We have gone full circle where white right wingers are arguing for an affirmative action for white people that requires lowering standards. Amazing. This is what meritocracy looks actually looks like.
I think the Kingman Lee tweet was hilarious - meaning that she is also a nonwhite person who has more in common with the villified Indians than the white racists that she supports. Does she really think she is going to get a pass if Team Right wins. She'd be lucky if she is merely deported to a random African country.
Indians are the new Jews, and I think you’re missing that both left and right are anxious about them both being disproportionately elite college grads and being in charge of institutions. However, your take is correct about American born Indians if not H1B Indians. At the same time, Indians disproportionately go to the most elite careers in corporations and do the dirty work of managerial capitalism that white men once did. The diaspora is not somehow universally a moral good. Indians both hide behind DEI and are victims of the affirmative action apparatus in elite institutions. It’s not quite as simple as Indian immigrants = good or Indian immigrants = bad. One should maybe look at the divisions within the diaspora to understand its impact on America.
So I'm a 2nd gen Indian American (meaning American born Indian immigrant parents) and the sheer ignorance on this topic, even more than the racism, is astounding.
First of all, these are almost all 2nd gen Indian Americans as well and there is a lot of them at UT Austin because of this: UT is the top school in the state, there are a lot of 2nd gen Indians in Texas who are smart and get good grades, and affirmative action is gone. Large schools also have Ethnic frats and social bubbles so this is just one part of the student section.
2nd, I'm actually pretty anti-H1B precisely because I believe that very smart and capable 2nd gen Asians and Indians are the most affected. Ive seen many of my smart friends struggle in the job market because they have to compete with H1Bs who will get kicked out of the country and will accept lower pay.
Classic take. Don't kick me out, I am the good Indian. Kick the others out because they're taking our jobs.
2nd-gen Indian-Americans are typically quite Americanized. The negative Indian stereotypes rarely apply. Besides, realistically you aren't going to be successful at kicking out US citizens. The legal barriers are just too high there, and it's political suicide. Let's not turn our country into a circular firing squad. To do so would be very unpatriotic.
He’s an American, therefore in no danger of being kicked out, and is allowed to have an opinion on U.S. policies.
No one should be kicked out but we also shouldn’t open the floodgates to H1Bs.
there are not even 600,000 H-1Bs in the entire country. so not sure what you mean by floodgates..
Anti-H1B is a bad take though. If first gen Asian and Indians are better workers than "very smart and capable 2nd gen Asians and Indians" the first generation should get the job.
They initially might be more submissive but prioritizing American Citizens will help us in the long run
The people that hate you will always find a reason to hate you. You can't reason them out of jealously.
I don’t think this argument is so much about trying to reason with the bigots so much as an analysis of the best interests of second and third generation Asian Americans.
You should note that everything you say about people coming on H-1B was said about your immigrant parents too. I've been following this conversation for a long time, and there's nothing they say about the visa or its recipients now that they didn't say back in the mid-90s (or early oughts); it's just the volume that's increased of late, not because of any personal experiences that people have had but rather social contagion (it's now cool to "like" or "retweet" such opinions).
When you say, ". . . this is just one part of the student section", do you mean that in the stadium the spectators tend to segregate themselves by skin color into ethnic sections, implying that the photograph is of one of the Indian sections? So of course it's all brown? Ethnic frats don't seem to be a good idea, either. Are they exclusive? Can an Indian frat bar pledges who are white or Chinese or not brown enough? Or is it just understood that white students aren't going to apply to join an Indian frat where they know they're not wanted?
I'm glad to know that affirmative action is no longer keeping out smart 2nd-gen Indians (who are of course US citizens) in favor of dull "legacy" blacks.
I had an Arab pal who was a part of a Jewish frat (he was neither ethnically nor culturally Jewish) and I was approached by recruiters for a black frat (I'm not black) so it's not exactly prohibited. Just amusing
Glad to hear that. Thanks.
You know why the racists are so triggered by the multicolored UT students? UT is the flagship public university in Texas and requires the best grades to get into.
The problem with folks like Cornyn who condemn overt racism is that folks who sounded like him managed to keep the riffraff out of elite institutions for decades on end without any explicit racism. Hmmm.
Last time I checked 70% of US senators were white men.
BTW, I noticed that women of any type were undercounted in the UT crowd.
The riffraff in the old decades was mostly black, so it kept itself out of elite institutions without any explicit racism. Yes that's exactly how it worked....until affirmative action let it in through lowered standards. The fall of AA now keeps those dull black people out, and their spots are being taken by people of other colors who get in on merit. That is doubtless a surprise to some people. It was calculated a few years ago that if Harvard ended affirmative action, its student body would be almost entirely Indian and Chinese and essentially no legacy black Americans. (Such black faces as you saw would be mostly Nigerian visa students.) That's just what meritocracy looks like.
You're only seeing a tiny slice of the audience, possibly selected to show a concentration of brown men. It's a football game. Women go to football games only if they are the girlfriends of the fans or players. There could well be fan section where the women hang out together....fewer drunks, maybe. That said, it would be nice to think that college football stadiums are the one place in the whole country that hasn't been feminized.
The U.S. electorate has decided it doesn't want more than 30% of Senators who are women or colored people. It's not the Senate's fault that "those people" don't get elected. The voters can vote for whomever they want, and they don't want to vote for black women. Suck it up.
No, folks like Cornyn created color blind meritocracy. Sad to see everyone hating on the white men who created one of the fairest cultures in history. In most societies, marginalized groups don’t complain at all because they can’t imagine that folk like Cornyn would ever allow access to their institutions.
In that case, it seems to me a bit strange that 70% of the US senators are white males.
White men gave everyone the vote and access to every rung of the ladder. Groups aren’t randomly selected. There’s nothing suspicious about male majority electricians or female majority healthcare workers etc.
You won’t get naively representative outcomes anywhere without even more social engineering than what equity activists have already been allowed to implement.
Was in Frisco, TX recently for work and there is a large Indian population. Went to a Rangers game and there was a group of Indian men there, late 20- early 30’s, all of them had like wings, burgers, etc… as they just talked and cheered on the TX rangers. They were the loudest and proudest fans in the stadium haha. Thats what we want in this country and they along with the UT fans are the best we could ask for.
The immigration from India over the past few decades has been highly selective - typically highly educated professionals in STEM fields. Very capable and highly disciplined immigrants - and from what I have seen, their kids are typically capable and hard working. I think a lot of the hatred here is from people who do now want to or have been unsuscessful competing with them. When my younger kids were in the public schools a decade ago in the Issaquah school disctrict (Seattle suburb, filled with Microsoft and Amazon workers) I would guess somewhat in excess of 2/3 of the kids in the Honors/IB classes were the children of South or East Asian parents.
When I did my Ph.D. in Engineering over 40 years ago most of my fellow graduate students were immigrants from South and East Asia. I understand the the fraction of foreign graduate students was even higher recently - at least until Trump started cutting back on both research and foreign students.
I told my kids to rise to the occasion. The professional workforce was a global one and they might as well get used to the competition now.
These immigrants are an asset to the country.
While I wish they would intermarry faster, the intermarriage rate is reasonably fast. The last I have heard for Indian immigrants is ~ 1/3 marry into the same caste they come from, 1/3 marry into a different caste, and 1/3 marry a non-Indian. Within 2 generations you are going to see > 50% outmarriage, which is reasonable.
Racist righties. Shocking.
It’s reasonable to oppose illegal immigration. But these folks are much more based than that.
Crazy lefties are no better of course. It’s always the horseshoe.
As a paid subscriber, I would prefer not to be told to "read the rest here" and then run into a paywall.
Incredible. And Sean Davis is piling on? I knew he was a reactionary but I didn’t know he was an outright, unrepentant racist in the George Wallace mold. Dayum.
John Cornyn said "This is how great political parties self-destruct." And he was totally on board with enabling this until the cult went after him, and now that it's destroyed his political career, he suddenly has a problem with it.
So one of the dudes who wants to keep America white is... Asian?
I am confused.🤷
I've even seen a white supremacist Indian dude too lol
One big problem here is that a lot of people on the center-left proliferated this idea of 'popularism' as a way of winning coalitional struggles against the far left. However, if you take 'politicians should adopt whatever positions they need to in order to maximize their odds of winning' to its logical conclusion, then if it turns out that most people are somewhat racist and find it distasteful when racial and ethnic minorities do well in American society, we have problems.
Sean Davis in the bigot column is interesting: he tried for a while to keep The Federalist as a true-conservative outlet while all along he was getting measured for his Klan robe.
It’s amazing what one image can do, along with groupthink & political propaganda speak.
Do you remember the image of the border patrol agent on the horse several years ago? The previous administration and sensational democrat talking point was that he was “whipping the migrant”. Not true! But oh the emotional response it produced in people was insane!
I know nothing about Bo French, but does he actually think that type of rhetoric help the right win in the long run? Does he understand big tent? 90% of students must be American citizens in the school according to an article I read. Also, when you look up other pictures from the game, there’s a diverse group of students, many white students are clear in other images as well. The power of a photo is worth a thousand words?!
We have gone full circle where white right wingers are arguing for an affirmative action for white people that requires lowering standards. Amazing. This is what meritocracy looks actually looks like.
I think the Kingman Lee tweet was hilarious - meaning that she is also a nonwhite person who has more in common with the villified Indians than the white racists that she supports. Does she really think she is going to get a pass if Team Right wins. She'd be lucky if she is merely deported to a random African country.
That's a dude, tho he certain doesn't act like it
My bad, looked like a woman. My vision ain't great these days. Little effing thumbnails are hard to see!
he got fired for being a groyper and now he podcasts and copy pastes hard race based talking points.
Indians are the new Jews, and I think you’re missing that both left and right are anxious about them both being disproportionately elite college grads and being in charge of institutions. However, your take is correct about American born Indians if not H1B Indians. At the same time, Indians disproportionately go to the most elite careers in corporations and do the dirty work of managerial capitalism that white men once did. The diaspora is not somehow universally a moral good. Indians both hide behind DEI and are victims of the affirmative action apparatus in elite institutions. It’s not quite as simple as Indian immigrants = good or Indian immigrants = bad. One should maybe look at the divisions within the diaspora to understand its impact on America.
Uh, no. Its not just a presentation issue. Those online righters are true believers and have been radicalized, at least by reflexivity.