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David44's avatar

I think if you are going to discuss the Iliad's value system in terms of the relationship between leaders and masses, one scene you really need to take into account is the speech of Sarpedon in Book 12, placed almost exactly at the center of the epic. In that speech Sarpedon explicitly describes the honor given to the chiefs as a reciprocal system: a reward to them by the people for their willingness to lead - and potentially die - in battle.

I don't see how that is compatible with your reading: yes, it too can be read as a justification for elite rule, but it is not a justification for UNCONDITIONAL elite rule, no matter how the elites perform, which is what you were arguing for. Your mistake - I think - is to note (correctly) that the elites in the Iliad are not judged on their wisdom or success, but you fail to see what they ARE judged on, which is their risk-taking courage.

jumpingjacksplash's avatar

This isn't propaganda because none of this is weird in the context the Iliad was written in.

The Greek soldiers in the Iliad aren't levies or conscripts, they're very loosely equivalent to a Viking war band. Their motivation for being there is so they can sack the city. They're also beneficiaries of the same social hierarchy that puts Agamemnon in charge.

Priam not returning Helen is straightforwardly understandable as not giving in to threats. As soon as the Trojans start giving the Greeks stuff to get them to go away, they implicitly create a relationship where have to start paying tribute to Agamemnon. They'd also realistically have to turn over Paris as well, who was Priam's son and so that's not on the table.

More generally, Thersites is basically a stock character that persists down to the present in any society which assumes the social hierarchy is accurate (rulers are better than elites are better than commoners are better than menials); he's a distant ancestor of Baldrick in Blackadder. The American idea that everyone is basically the same and social hierarchies are a kind of racket where the people at the top trick everyone wouldn't have occurred to a 9th-century BC Greek, who would have assumed that obviously kings were better than commoners.

The Greek would be more right, because the elites would be noticeably taller (vast nutritional differences, including dietary protein, means aristocrats would have post-industrial height, peasants pre-industrial height), stronger (ibid), better looking (partly ibid, also having first choice of women gives a genetic advantage), smarter (ibid), have a far broader range of knowledge and experience, and militarily trained. The king and the commoner are only equal if you assume that there's something on the inside, separate from all their observable characteristics, in which all people are the same as each other; this is a really janky hack invented by the Christians, and raises all sorts of other questions if you don't just assume it's true by default (do women/children/animals also have equal souls, and why are the souls more important than everything else). Contra Jefferson, it's not actually "self-evident."

Taking this together, you can compare the Iliad to Saving Private Ryan. Sure, it's propaganda on some level. But it's not propaganda in favour of having a large, paid conscript army with meritocratic promotions that obeys an elected civilian power structure and doesn't loot. Spielberg literally won't have thought about any of those details, he'll just have assumed that's how armies work because he's American and that's the sea he's swimming in; he doesn't have to worry that his audience will think, "Why isn't Tom Hanks looting Paris and carrying off a Frenchwoman as his spoils?" Homer's the same thing in reverse, he's not arguing against 21st century norms because they wouldn't occur to him.

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